Digital Dharma

The Middle Path, One Day At A Time

Western Shugden Society – unlocked

12 Comments

This issue is all about grasping, and has nothing useful to do with dharma except, perhaps, as an illustration of the Second Noble Truth.  I have chosen to remove the article and the link from these pages.  They were skewing my stats.

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Author: Bill

Stumbling down the Middle Path, one day at a time.

12 thoughts on “Western Shugden Society – unlocked

  1. Please check out http://www.WisdomBuddhaDorjeShugden.org and its blog for latest news and so on, including the nine foot wall that has been built at Ganden monastery to divide Shugden monks from non-Shugden monks. And keep an eye on the news over the next couple of days — there was a riot today when thousands of Tibetan Dalai Lama followers shouted and screamed at the peaceful WSS protestors outside Radio City in New York and many extra mounted police and ground force had to be brought in to keep the Tibetans from being violent. The roads were closed and eventually the police had to bring in buses accompanied by police on motorbikes to ship out the WSS protestors (including a large number of Tibetans) safely. It was high drama and most of the news outlets were there taking footage.

  2. Does anybody really believe that the nkt/wss are not the same organisation?
    Please take cautionwhen getting information from people who believe ther own propoganda.
    xxx

  3. yes yes the ‘Dalai Lama’s ‘persecution’…
    But how reliable are those behind the Anti-Dalai-Lama campaign?

    Of course NKT members believe what the New Kadampa Tradition tells at their websites or to their students.

    However, there are m a n y who see it v e r y different.

    see “Buddhism under assault” NKTworld.org
    http://www.nktworld.org

  4. The Dalai Lama’s persecution of Dorje Shugden worshippers is difficult to believe in because it is difficult to understand why the Dalai Lama would do such a thing. As persecutors go the Dalai Lama is, admittedly, rather unusual, and it is difficult to see him as a malicious individual.

    This is the case for WSS supporters as much as for anyone else. I myself held the Dalai Lama in very high regard prior to learning about this. However the facts speak for themselves and anyone interested in investigating them should refer to the web-sites cited by Dharmapal above.

    the facts speak for themselves

    How do we know that these are “facts?” Do I continue to believe information that I have built up over the past 20 years, or do I suddenly begin believing self-serving Web sites? I’m sorry. I have more respect for my own critical faculties than that.

  5. Hi Bill,
    may I leave my comment to your post?

    I think there is a messenger (Western Shugden Society) and a message (ostracism, suppression of religious freedom, violation of human rights). There are two possibilities
    1. The message is correct! Really, in this case who cares about the messenger. Let’s solve these problems.

    2. The WSS’ claims are not correct! In this case, we should not waste one single moment talking about the WSS

    By the way, if some day someone will knock on my door and tell me that I won 1 Million Dollar in National Lottery , I promise that I will not care about the messenger, just about the message and take the money 😉

    Excellent point. I have no problem with the message or the messenger, only the way it is delivered. If people want to act like 10-year-olds hurling stones, they will simply have to do it someplace else. I have to read these things in order to moderate them, bad manners annoy me (especially in people who claim to practice the Dharma), and I won’t put up with unskillful behavior on the site. One chooses to be civil or not. On this site, we are civil.

  6. Bill, all due respect, why did you post a link to the Western Shugden Society Unlocked in the first place if you didn’t want Dorje Shugden practitioners to have to defend themselves (again)?

    Re-read my lips: it’s about the lack of civility, not the discussion. This is not a schoolyard.

  7. It seems to me that you both need to relax. Your practice resembles that of the Buddha the way that of many Christians resembles the practice of the Christ, which is to say not at all.

    In any case, take your argument elsewhere. Your comments are no longer welcome here. Your discourse too closely resembles two small boys in a schoolyard.

    I suggest meditating on the Four Noble Truths — for a long time.

  8. You are the same sad Tenzin whose avowed agenda is to destroy the NKT and Dorje Shugden practice. The holier than thou monk who is so obssessed with his grudge against his old tradition that he posts on every blog and dedicates several websites to slandering it. His animosity fills the internet and probably makes up 80% of the bad things said about the NKT. Maybe more. Thank you Tenzin Peljor, Tashi, Michael, Michael Jackel, kt66 etc, but we have heard enough. You have cut and pasted the same tired arguments over and over again, even though every one has been refuted at other times. Please stop slandering us and get back to your FPMT studies.

  9. I made a fault here, which I wish to correct and to excuse:

    the post by Dharmapal is not posted by Sumati Arya. I misread the end of the post as being signed by Sumati Arya. This is not correct.

    Nevertheless, the content of my reply is correct.
    many regards, tenzin

  10. Dear Sumati Arya, we know us personally from Schloss Sommerswalde. As I know you, Kundeling, Lama Gangchen, Geshe Kelsang (NKT), Dagom Rinpoche and the setting very well, I also know what I said on my blog. For more one can read this more extensive article:

    http://info-buddhism.com/Western_Shugden_Society_unlocked.html

    and for the shocking details about the deception and deeds or the background of some Shugden-Lamas one can read what I posted at phayul:

    http://forums.phayul.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=1924&view=findpost&p=21225

    Who likes a more official way can read this:
    Sowing dissent and undermining the Dalai Lama by TibetInfoNet
    http://www.tibetinfonet.net/content/update/116
    and Press Release of the TGIE
    http://www.tibet.net/en/prelease/2002/190702.html

    It explains the setting well.

    That the website of the WSS was translated into 9 languages is due to the professional skills of NKT, moreover I have Emails and insider information of NKT, including GKG which confirm and form the basis about of what I stated: that mainly NKT is behind those protests.

    It is true, that some few Tibetans support the WSS and it is also true that Kundeling and his students, like you do as well. But the main force and the organisation is NKT. The same was 12 years ago – under the label of Shugden Supporter Community. We met each other at that time.

    I was not only a member and witness of the past Anti-Dalai Lama protests, I was also an organizer of those protests and a witness how NKT tried likewise to hide their identity and how less support they had (besides Kundeling and you and one Tibetan, “Tashi”). I was also present at the press conference in Berlin and I know from own experience and checking how exaggerated, based on delusion and hostility the claims were.

    Due to UK laws I can not publish the Emails of Geshe Kelsang here, but from them and internal Emails of NKT it is very clear who is behind it.

    That Kundeling involved you in such a tragic situation, I am very sorry for. However you decided to go this way of those who can not see the qualities of the Dalai Lama. This is your choice.

    What the WSS has to tell is exaggerated, put a spin on the facts and is based on semi-truths and untruths. There is much delusion.

    However people can check out for themselves. At least now there are some information which are not controlled by the WSS and offer another side of that issue.

    I wish you personally and Kundeling and Dechen all the best. For me this is not a personal issue. I am just interested that people are not misled by that propaganda, and have enough information to find out for themselves what is going on.

    I hope in the future there are some well-researched articles like those from the last Media Campaign in The Guardian
    and The Independent. Until that some of the confusion and misinformation the WSS spreads will probably stick or effect others.

    Many Regards, Tenzin

  11. Please find out more about the other side of the story by looking at this website:

    http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.com

    and its blog:

    http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.blogspot.com/

    And come to your own conclusions. The WSS is not trying to deceive anyone.


    It’s all so silly!

  12. Is the WSS the NKT in disguise?

    Whenever the Western Shugden Society (WSS) demonstrate, there always seem to be a few individuals waiting to jump on the blogs to insist that the WSS is the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT).

    This theory is incorrect.

    As it says on the Western Shugden Society website (translated into 9 languages):

    “The Western Shugden Society (WSS) is an ad hoc coalition of Dorje Shugden practitioners from many different countries. The immediate aims of the WSS are expressed in a recent letter we sent to the Dalai Lama.”

    The WSS includes many Tibetans, both in India and in countries in the West. For example, if you look at the WSS website, particularly at the news reports from the demonstration at Colgate University, you will see photos of some of these Tibetans in the West.

    The Tibetans who are suffering under the Dalai Lama’s ban and subsequent ostracism and human rights abuses in India are of course not free to travel to demonstrate – they need identity cards to do anything and are not issued these if they are Dorje Shugden practitioners. The WSS is demonstrating on their behalf. At this point, the Dalai Lama cannot force Westerners to give up their practice of Dorje Shugden, although he has created a great deal of tension and bad feeling in Western Buddhist Centers through his actions.

    As one Tibetan, Tenzin Gelek, said today in reply to a blogger (June 12 2008):

    “Western Shugden society is coalition of Dorje Shugden practitioners around the world including Tibetan. It is not NKT group. We do share same lineage and teachers. As a Tibetan I am very grateful to all demonstrators for bringing helping us Tibetan, who are suffering, because of this ban. The suffering of Dorje Shugden practitioners in Tibetan Exile is true and real. Many westerners are misinformed by Dalai Lama and his publicity machine accusing Dorje Shugden practitioners as support by Chinese and devil worshipers or there is no real ban. Until 1996 we all lived in harmony in monasteries and Tibetan community. Dorje Shugden practitioners are suffering, monks are kick out of monasteries, children are ban from school and denied aid given by western aid group etc. We urge all freedom loving peoples of world to support our religious freedom and human rights. Thank you all.”

    If you read the account of the demonstration given earlier on this blog, you will also get more of a feeling for who is in the WSS.

    As for those who follow the New Kadampa Tradition, it is clear that many Kadampas are also Western Shugden Society supporters as they rely upon the practice of Wisdom Buddha Dorje Shugden. However, by no means all WSS supporters are NKT, not even a majority. There are potentially hundreds of thousands of WSS supporters worldwide and over the coming months (or years if needs be) they will engage in more and more activities to bring the Dalai Lama’s unlawful and unconstitutional actions to light. For example, check DorjeShugden.com for some other Western Shugden practitioners and ShugdenSociety.info for some of the Shugden practitioners in the exile community in India.

    In May 2008, at the Spring Festival at Manjushri Kadampa Meditation Centre, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso (the Spiritual Director of the NKT) explained that he was supporting these demonstrations because the spiritual lives of Shugden practitioners throughout the world are in danger and he wants to help them.

    This is the motivation of many of the people practicing in the New Kadampa Tradition. As one NKT practitioner expressed it: “For example, I am an NKT practitioner, but I am also individually and by choice (not by NKT policy) a supporter of the Western Shugden Society as I want to help restore the religious freedom of Shugden practitioners in India — those are two different hats.”

    If the demonstrations were organized by the NKT, there would have to be a decision taken by the NKT Board of Directors. But they have never met about the issue nor made such a decision.

    Finally, it is worth noting that NKT practitioners are free to attend the demonstrations or not as they choose (and they do choose), as these have nothing to do with the NKT organization.

    Check out these websites for other Western Shugden supporters in the West:
    DorjeShugden.com
    Dagom Gaden Tensung Ling
    Sumati Arya

    and in India:
    ShugdenSociety.info